Commons:Village pump

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Welcome to the Village pump

This page is used for discussions of the operations, technical issues, and policies of Wikimedia Commons. Recent sections with no replies for 7 days and sections tagged with {{Section resolved|1=--~~~~}} may be archived; for old discussions, see the archives; the latest archive is Commons:Village pump/Archive/2024/01.

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# 💭 Title 💬 👥 🙋 Last editor 🕒 (UTC)
1 Special:UncategorizedCategories 24 7 Jmabel 2024-01-04 21:38
2 Category renaming (move) 12 6 Marsupium 2024-01-03 16:11
3 Best practice for category for ebooks? 6 4 RZuo 2024-01-01 10:21
4 Laws of Malaysia publications' copyright 2 2 Ruslik0 2023-12-30 19:53
5 UK law clarified 9 5 Gnom 2024-01-02 14:02
6 About uploading a last radio broadcast 6 4 Jmabel 2024-01-01 03:17
7 Help with mass renamer 9 4 Chris.sherlock2 2024-01-02 01:05
8 Category:Men of the France by name 5 4 Tuvalkin 2024-01-02 14:01
9 Two more Mickey Mouse films going PD this year 7 6 Yann 2024-01-05 17:50
10 Commons Gazette 2024-01 1 1 RZuo 2024-01-01 09:12
11 Flickr2Commons stalled? 5 3 Pigsonthewing 2024-01-02 20:05
12 Usage of files with link to file removed 12 8 Krok6kola 2024-01-06 03:04
13 Dutch east indies birth cert 6 3 RZuo 2024-01-03 03:09
14 Commons 2023 in numbers 2 2 Ymblanter 2024-01-02 21:28
15 Revision deletion? 6 4 Jmabel 2024-01-02 20:42
16 Video2commons still down? 3 3 Jmabel 2024-01-02 19:38
17 Photo signature help 8 5 From Hill To Shore 2024-01-05 14:45
18 Category:Bertrand de Beauvau 1 1 Jmabel 2024-01-03 06:08
19 Standardizing Setsumatsusha Categories 7 3 Jeff G. 2024-01-04 11:30
20 File:Tesla den Hahn abdrehen, Blaues-Band-Aktion gegen Tesla, Grünheide Fangschleuse, Wasserschutz vor Profite! Fabrik-Eerweiterung verhindern! 01.jpg 2 2 Jmabel 2024-01-03 19:41
21 Mass rename requests 19 9 Krok6kola 2024-01-05 21:06
22 Long-term file warring regarding scope of Asia 8 5 Nosferattus 2024-01-05 22:42
23 Commons:Meet our photographers/People 1 1 ComputerHotline 2024-01-04 07:17
24 Shaping the Future of the Community Wishlist Survey 2 2 Jmabel 2024-01-04 19:52
25 Discussion of an edit to Commons:Licensing 1 1 Jmabel 2024-01-04 19:36
26 Sanborn Maps. Time to Vote. 17 7 Adamant1 2024-01-06 08:09
27 Template:Taken with 6 4 Tuvalkin 2024-01-06 05:20
28 Do you use Wikidata in Wikimedia sibling projects? Tell us about your experiences 2 2 Tuvalkin 2024-01-06 05:17
29 How often have mp3 and mpeg-2 been used lately? 2 2 C.Suthorn 2024-01-05 19:25
30 Resurrection of Featured media candidates 1 1 Yann 2024-01-05 20:19
31 Asahel Curtis 3 3 Dominic 2024-01-06 07:37
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November 26[edit]

Special:UncategorizedCategories[edit]

We now have 2,544 uncategorized (parentless) categories, down from about 8,000 in the beginning of September. At this point, most of the "low-hanging fruit" is taken care of. User:Billinghurst and I have done the bulk of the cleanup, although a few others have also helped in various degrees. We could definintely use more help, most of which does not require an admin as such.

  • Most of the remaining listings are legitimate categories, with content, but lacking parent categories. They need parent categories and they need incoming interwiki links from any relevant Wikidata item.
    • A disproportionate number of these would best be handled by someone who knows Hungarian or Estonian.
  • Some categories just need to be turned into cat redirects ({{Cat redirect}} and have their content moved accordingly.
  • A few categories listed here will prove to be fine as they stand; the tool messed up and put them in the list because it didn't correctly understand that a template had correctly given them parent categories. Many of these are right near the front of the (alphabetical) list, and involve dates.
  • Some categories probably either call for obvious renaming or should be nominated for COM:CFD discussions.
  • Some empty categories (not a lot of those left, but new ones happen all the time) need to be deleted.
  • At the end of the alphabetical listing (5th and 6th page) are about 75 categories that have names in non-Latin alphabets. It would be great if people who read the relevant writing systems could help with these. Probably most of these are candidates for renaming.

Thanks in advance for any help you can give. - Jmabel ! talk 03:21, 26 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I'm a bit confused about something @Jmabel: I checked the page and some of the categories on there are for example Category:April 2016 in Bourgogne-Franche-Comté (through 2023), but these were created years ago in some instances and already had parent categories from the start. How do categories like that end up there? ReneeWrites (talk) 02:09, 29 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@ReneeWrites: Insufficient follow-through and patrolling, combined with out of control back end processes.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 02:48, 29 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@ReneeWrites: Actually, in this case this appears to be some sort of flaw in the software that creates the Special page. As I wrote a couple of days ago, "A few categories listed here will prove to be fine as they stand; the tool messed up and put them in the list because it didn't correctly understand that a template had correctly given them parent categories. Many of these are right near the front of the (alphabetical) list, and involve dates." It looks like today's run added a bunch of these false positives and that (unlike the previous bunch) they are more scattered through the list. I believe all of the 100+ files that use Template:Month by year in Bourgogne-Franche-Comté are on today's list; none of these were there three days earlier. That probably has something to do with User:Birdie's edits to yesterday to Template:Month by year in Bourgogne-Franche-Comté; those are complicated enough that I have no idea what in particular might have confused the software. The categories still look fine from a normal user point of view, but the software that creates Special:UncategorizedCategoriesn is somehow confused.
Other than that: we're a couple of hundred fixed or deleted categories closer to where we'd want to be, compared to a couple of days ago. - Jmabel ! talk 04:23, 29 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Server-purges should fix this but apparently it doesn't. Some categories that didn't appear last time after purging the cache have disappeared now so I'm more confused as to what the problem could be since the iirc the refresh time was after some pages were updated (it has problems when pages get all their categories from a template). There should probably be a phrabricator issue about this, albeit it's possible things work fine once there are always just a small number of cats there which seems increasingly feasible. Prototyperspective (talk) 12:35, 29 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Jeff G., could you explain what "... out of control back end processes" means, so I can understand your comment? --Ooligan (talk) 16:54, 29 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Ooligan: As I understand it, there are processes that run on WMF servers that run too long or get caught up in race conditions or whatever, and that get terminated after running too long. I think updating this special page may be one such process, sometimes. Certainly, updating the read / not read status of stuff on my watchlist seems that way, especially when using this new reply tool. Turning off the big orange bar before displaying my user talk page would be helpful, too. <end rant>   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 19:26, 29 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Jeff G., thank you. --Ooligan (talk) 19:44, 29 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Ooligan: You're welcome.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 20:11, 29 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Even with those 100 or so "Bourgogne-Franche-Comté" false positives, we are now down to 2079. Again, we could really use help from people who know languages with non-Latin scripts, all of which are grouped toward the end of the list. Also, Hungarian and Estonian, scattered throughout. - Jmabel ! talk 23:08, 2 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Now down to 1905, again including 100+ false positives. Still really need help from people who read Estonian, Hungarian, or languages with non-Latin scripts. - Jmabel ! talk 21:58, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

And now to 1701, again with the same number of false positives and still with the same need for help from people who read Estonian, Hungarian, or languages with non-Latin scripts. Those are probably now the languages for about half of the remaining categories. - Jmabel ! talk 00:23, 14 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Now 1471, with the same provisos and the same needs for help. - Jmabel ! talk 18:42, 19 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

We are making major progress. As of today, we are down to 1031 (and seem to be rid of the false positives, so maybe the progress looks more dramatic than it is, but it's still nice). Only a few left in non-Latin alphabets. Still need a bunch of help with Estonian and Hungarian.

Thanks to whoever fixed the "false positives" thing. - Jmabel ! talk 21:36, 25 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

As of today, we are (amazingly) under 1000, with only two remaining in non-Latin alphabets. 947 as of today. I suspect that anyone who speaks languages from Central and Eastern Europe could still help out considerably here. - Jmabel ! talk 20:22, 28 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

BTW, we are still getting some false positives, e.g. Category:Letters with "e" as diacritic above and other similar categories. This makes me guess we are also getting some false negatives (parentless categories that don't show up in the report). - Jmabel ! talk 20:46, 28 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you for pointing this out. While many uncategorized categories are useless ones that should be deleted, there is indeed some low-hanging fruit in there, including ones that can be linked to an article on a Wikipedia. – b_jonas 18:49, 31 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
At this point, the remaining categories are probably about 80% or more either simply needing parents, or needing some sort of clarification or merge. Very few are outright deletions. - Jmabel ! talk 19:40, 31 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Progress continues. We are at 777. - Jmabel ! talk 20:43, 31 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

i think we could deploy a bot to monitor this page, send reminders to users who create uncategorised cat pages and add the uncat cats to a maintenance cat.--RZuo (talk) 11:16, 2 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@RZuo: We have {{subst:Please link images}} for the reminder.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 15:37, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Jeff G.: That's really about categories on images, though, not categories on categories. FWIW, a lot of these happen in one of two ways:
  1. a small number of users create a fair number of categories and, as far as I can tell, can't be bothered to learn to do it right, or don't care that they leave a ton of work for others. They are not unaware of the situation: they've been told, but they keep doing it. I could name some names, but I'd rather not.
  2. a lot of people seem to think the correct way to get rid of an unused empty category is just to blank it, which of course leaves a parentless category. This group is generally "educable", and for that purpose we have {{How to delete empty categories}}. - Jmabel ! talk 21:05, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

As of the start of the year we are down to 680; probably 100 of these have been dealt with in the last couple of days but others have doubtless come into this state. The vast majority of these are appropriate categories (mostly for individual people) that just need appropriate parent categories and, in some cases, should be attached to a Wikidata item or have one created. You don't need to be an admin to help out, just good at categorization. - Jmabel ! talk 21:09, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Wow! Down to 456, again leaning heavily toward Central East Europe, especially Hungarian. - Jmabel ! talk 21:38, 4 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

December 25[edit]

Category renaming (move)[edit]

Nearly a year ago Delta Air Lines re-purchased the naming rights for the main arena in Salt Lake City, Utah (most recently knows as the Vivint Smart Home Arena) to become effective July 1, 2023. Accordingly, since this appears a "non controversial name change", an attempt was made by this editor to move the former category to the category reflecting the current name (Delta Center). However, the target category already existed, as this was the original name of the area (1991), so the category move is not allowed. Therefore, in September of this year this editor added the Move template to the Vivint Smart Home Arena category requesting administrative approval of said move. Understanding, that there is a backlog of move requests, the rapid approval of said request was not expected. Notwithstanding, with the requested move still not having been approved, this editor is wondering if the correct process has been followed to get said category renamed. An Errant Knight (talk) 13:49, 25 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@An Errant Knight: I tagged it {{SD|G6}} to put it back in this edit.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 14:03, 25 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Suppose that is one way to allow make it work. Thanks for the assistance. An Errant Knight (talk) 19:38, 25 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@An Errant Knight: You're welcome. Johnj1995 modified it in this later edit.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 19:47, 25 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Deletion done. Someone else can take it from there. - Jmabel ! talk 21:22, 25 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@An Errant Knight and Jmabel: Cat moved and cleaned; members moved; Wikidata connection is not working yet. :(   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 21:36, 25 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Mike Peel: Please help.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 21:45, 25 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Jeff G. and An Errant Knight: I think Pi bot automatically fixed this - the trick is to use the sitelinks (under 'Multilingual sites'), not Commons category (P373). Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 06:47, 26 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Mike Peel: Thanks!   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 07:06, 26 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks all for the assistance! An Errant Knight (talk) 16:00, 26 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Whats wrong with using the original name of a stadium if applicable. I mean the name it would have, if a sponsor stepped away. We could then cover the temporary names with re-directs, which obviously would be left in place as new sponsors arrive on the scene. --Broichmore (talk) 16:43, 28 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Sounds like a reasonable approach. I don’t see why categories here should reflect this purchasability of everything in these cases. --Marsupium (talk) 16:11, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

December 28[edit]

Best practice for category for ebooks?[edit]

Category:孫子 contains various versions of ebooks (often pdf but sometimes also djvu) of The Art of War, which should all be put into Category:The Art of War by Sun Tzu.

but, to separate the ebooks from other media (photos, derivative works, etc.) related to the topic, a subcategory is certainly better.

because each version has very few files, it's unrealistic to create a subcat for each version.

a title of "scanned copies of The Art of War" is not good because they might not be scanned. a title of "The Art of War in PDF" is also not good because that separates pdf from djvu.

how should i name a category, that is for ebook-format files of a book? RZuo (talk) 13:37, 28 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@RZuo: Category:The Art of War ebooks by Sun Tzu.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 14:11, 28 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Sun Tzu never made ebooks. Category:The Art of War by Sun Tzu - ebooks would be better. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:35, 28 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
between "ebooks of <title>" and "<title> - ebooks", i'm going to use the latter format because then all cats are automatically sorted in alphabetical order in cat:ebooks by title. RZuo (talk) 10:21, 1 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Is this really necessary? Shouldn't file types be a category of their own? We should encourage people to use search to ascertain available e-books by Sun Tzu, rather than this micro management, that will be a chore to maintain.
Books are not defined by file type. Added to which their will be many types conjured up in the future.
The category in question has only 30 objects, is it really so difficult to scan the thumbnails, to filter out what file type you need and want? --Broichmore (talk) 16:53, 28 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
how about
Category:A Christmas Carol
Category:Ramayana
Category:Robinson Crusoe
Category:Alice in Wonderland
...? RZuo (talk) 19:55, 28 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

December 29[edit]

Laws of Malaysia publications' copyright[edit]

I read at COM:CRT/Malaysia and 010113_Act 332_final.pdf about section 3 of Copyright Act 1987 that “literary work” does not include official texts of the Government or statutory bodies of a legislative or regulatory nature, thus not eligible for copyright under section 7. But few of the publication have copyright statement within the document.

Example: Akta 846 BI.pdf at page 2, uploaded at File:Abolition of Mandatory Death Penalty Act 2023.pdf.

This contradiction concerns me about the copyright status of these publications and the permission to upload these files. I guess maybe the 'expression' of work such as the layout of the content are copyrighted? Ong Kai Jin (talk) 15:35, 29 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

It is not uncommon for publishers to claim copyright to something that is in public domain. So, the law ought to prevail. Ruslik (talk) 19:53, 30 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

UK law clarified[edit]

Court of Appeal ruling will prevent UK museums from charging reproduction fees—at last. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:53, 29 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Finally! Very good news, thanks for the link. Do we need to modify some Commons pages accordingly? I think there are warnings in some places that in the UK (unlike the US and the EU) there might be claims to reproduction rights for public domain art. Gestumblindi (talk) 21:27, 29 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
And there might be some UK-specific templates that need changes, too... ? Gestumblindi (talk) 21:33, 29 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I can't see any that need changing. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:23, 29 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Good news indeed. Commons:Reuse of PD-Art photographs#United Kingdom / UK will probably need to be updated. --Rosenzweig τ 21:57, 29 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I've done that one, and COM:UK. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:19, 29 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Gestumblindi, @Pigsonthewing, @Rosenzweig- are there any opportunities at institutions or websites, where files can now be uploaded? --Ooligan (talk) 23:22, 29 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
We've generally been uploading images anyway, where they're available to download. Hopefully this will encourage institutions to be less obstructive when it comes to allowing downloads, but may take some time to have that effect. Also, there should be less of a chilling effect on volunteers who might otherwise do uploads, but have been put off. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 23:52, 29 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Excellent news indeed, I was also delighted to read about this. Thank you for sharing, @Pigsonthewing! Gnom (talk) 14:02, 2 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

December 31[edit]

About uploading a last radio broadcast[edit]

Hi, I recently recorded the last broadcast of DR Langbølge wanted to upload it onto commons either as Public Domain or CC-BY (just want attribution). This was the last longwave transmitter that was commercial in Scandinavia. When I tried to upload it, it threw this warning saying it's not allowed to upload .mp3 to commons. This is a historical recording, recorded on own equipment in Norway. Is it okay to post it on commons I can just remove the music, by trimming it to 30mins and until the last interval signal is broadcast. Alternatively I can just upload it to my own site or some offlabel site then then cite it as external link in the transmitter's wikipage Cheers and a happy New Year Koltinn (talk) 19:10, 31 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Koltinn: (1) Why would this be in the public domain? (2) You can cite a broadcast whether a copy is online or not, though I agree that archiving a copy somewhere would be good in case your citation is disputed. (3) For audio formats, see Commons:Audio. - Jmabel ! talk 19:43, 31 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Can't you just use a different audio format? Trade (talk) 21:01, 31 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
There is no other option, it's shut down.
Why would this be in the public domain? The prompt refered to https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Project_scope and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_content
What I meant was I the recorder of the audio file would like to place the copy of the broadcast in either public domain or cc-by.
As for other formats, I do not know the size limit of uploads, the full recording is 375 megs (going to remove all music from it though) recorded at 8 bit mono pcm wav. I try not overload filehosts etc as common courtesy and .mp3's are easily played though lossy.
Koltinn (talk) 22:22, 31 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I think there is a slight confusion here as "recorder of the audio file," can have two meanings. First, you could be a representative of the radio station who had the right to make an official recording and release the official content under a suitable licence (or release into the public domain). Second, you may be a listener of the radio station who has made a private recording; while you own the copyright of the recording, you have no control over the rights of those who were recorded.
In the second scenario, we would need to understand the basis on which you have the right to release the contributors' work into the public domain. From Hill To Shore (talk) 01:34, 1 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Also: the station being shut down does not prevent you from converting the format of the audio file. - Jmabel ! talk 03:17, 1 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Help with mass renamer[edit]

Hi all, I've added User:Jeff G./massrename.js to my common.js file, but where is the link meant to appear? I can't seem to get this to work... any ideas what I've done wrong? - Chris.sherlock2 (talk) 19:37, 31 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Chris.sherlock2: Right, look for a portlet link named "MassRename" (or "massrename" on Monobook) on a category page once you are a filemover+ (until then, please ask me or someone else experienced with it). Doc is at User:Jeff G./massrename. Please feel free to document your experiences at User talk:Jeff G./massrename.js.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 07:10, 1 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Oh… how do I know if I have FileMover+ privileges? - Chris.sherlock2 (talk) 07:53, 1 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
If you don't have at the privilege to rename files, obviously you can't mass rename them! - Jmabel ! talk 18:16, 1 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks, I figured that. I didn’t know, however, if the issue was with a lack of rights or if I had not installed the gadget properly. Given I do request a lot of renames, is there a way I could request access to this bit? - Chris.sherlock2 (talk) 21:13, 1 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Chris.sherlock2: See Commons:Requests for rights. From Hill To Shore (talk) 21:20, 1 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
More specifically Commons:Requests for rights#Filemover. Chris, I'm sure you know better than I how often your requests are granted vs. rejected. If in the last year you've been running close to 100%, you should get this. If not, not. - Jmabel ! talk 22:31, 1 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks, I got the permissions :-) However, I would not have been upset had I not, I would have just accepted community consensus and asked someone to help me with the moves. - Chris.sherlock2 (talk) 01:05, 2 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Category:Men of the France by name[edit]

This incorrectly named category, created today, already has 4620 categories in it. Apparently it is populated by the Wikidata infoboxes. The category with the correct English name is Category:Men of France by name, which has existed since 2015. "the France" seems to be a too literal translation of the French name "la France". Does anyone have a clue how to tweak the Wikidata Infobox code to use the correct category name? --Rosenzweig τ 20:08, 31 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The code that adds this category looks to be on Module:Wikidata Infobox#L-1274, and it will prefer "Men of the [country] by name" over "Men of [country] by name". IMO the easiest way to solve this would be to delete the incorrect category without a redirect. Clay (talk) 22:31, 31 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
✓ Done. --A.Savin 23:25, 31 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks. I've protected the page against recreation. --Rosenzweig τ 06:25, 1 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Wow. Instead of looking up a table to check weather a given country takes the article in its English name (which I would expect to be a property of English country names already in WD itself), Module:Wikidata Infobox uses a crude kludge like that? It just does an #ifexist to Commons cats and if "Category:Something of the Country" exists, prefers it over "Category:Something of Country", not even checking whether the former is a redirect?!
Okay, so, explain me again how Modules and LUA and SD and Wikidata itself is all sleek and professional, made by Real Developpers, while manual categorization, wikitext, and templates made by lowly “power users” is the wrong way to go… Because this kind of kludge is only justified when there’s no better way to do it, and when you have actual database query access and are backed with a lion’s share of WMF’s piggy bank, you are expected to do better than that.
-- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 14:01, 2 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Two more Mickey Mouse films going PD this year[edit]

Anybody got plans to upload Plane Crazy and The Gallopin' Gaucho soon? These are going into the public domain in 2024 as well. As the person who will probably be here to transcribe them both, I'm anxiously awaiting their arrival at Commons. PseudoSkull (talk) 21:04, 31 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Will do. — Racconish 💬 21:32, 31 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Are you gonna undelete the images that were deleted for being copyvio of Mickey Mouse? Trade (talk) 03:02, 1 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Most images of Mickey Mouse will still be copyrighted in 2024. - Jmabel ! talk 03:19, 1 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yes, we need to be very careful. We can only include the original version (Steamboat Willie) of Mickey Mouse - the others are still cooyrighted. - Chris.sherlock2 (talk) 08:19, 1 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Any idea what Disney film will go PD next year? Trade (talk) 16:47, 5 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
✓ Done I uploaded 2 silent versions of File:The Gallopin' Gaucho (1928).webm and File:Plane Crazy (1928), no sound.webm. Yann (talk) 17:50, 5 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

January 01[edit]

Commons Gazette 2024-01[edit]

Happy New Year 2024!

Edited by RZuo (talk).

Commons Gazette is a monthly newsletter of the latest important news about Wikimedia Commons, edited by volunteers. You can also help with editing! --RZuo (talk) 09:12, 1 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Flickr2Commons stalled?[edit]

I just set up a batch of 100+ files to upload with Flickr2Commons, and hit the upload button. The first five files were highlighted blue, as expected... and then nothing. NO files have been uploaded, and no error message has been displayed. Anyone else having issues? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:56, 1 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Usage of files with link to file removed[edit]

Do we allow the removal of the link to the file if it is used on a page on Commons? If you use a file on a page it always has a link to the file page with the author and license information. But it is possible to remove this link. Do we allows this to be done for not public domain files? With the link removed we requirements of the license are violated. GPSLeo (talk) 16:25, 1 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@GPSLeo: I can't make sense of that. "the link to the file" meaning what exactly? Can you give an example? - Jmabel ! talk 22:34, 1 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Jmabel: I think GPSLeo means using "link=" (that is, no link) in file display wikitext as per the last paragraph of en:H:PIC#Links. We should not allow this to be done for not public domain files unless the link would be obvious from the context.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 03:25, 2 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Sounds reasonable. I'm just wondering if it may be an issue sometimes for images used as part of a template. Or do we confine that to PD & CC-zero for that purpose? Again: is there an example of an actual place where this has been a problem? - Jmabel ! talk 03:30, 2 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
For more context see my edit in https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?diff=836599240 explicitly setting link= to no value (because if we talked about HTML pages there would be no sense in linking a purely decorative embedded image which would be noisy in screenreader software). This conversation would definitely benefit from input by folks regularly using screenreader software. I personally see a tradeoff between accessibility practices versus interpretation of license requirements (and I'd love to be proven wrong). --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 06:35, 2 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I am not sure how you can talk about "interpretation of licence requirements" as if there is some aspect of ambiguity. One example from your edit, File:PICOL icon Statistics.svg, has a clear instruction in the licence saying, "You must give appropriate credit, provide a link to the license, and indicate if changes were made. You may do so in any reasonable manner." Your edit fails all 3 of the requirements in the first line. If this causes problems for screen readers then we may need to consider this issue as a wiki-wide problem - why is it just your one page that is impacted and not every instance of an image being used in a wiki? From Hill To Shore (talk) 09:26, 2 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@From Hill To Shore: Well, there is "some aspect of ambiguity" as enforcing laws (and thus licenses) relies on human interpretation of requirements to fulfil. Would you say that "You may do so in any reasonable manner" is not ambiguous? In this case, my personal interpretation is that whether linked or not, an image currently does not provide a (direct) link to its license anyway. My edit fails all 3 requirements and in my interpretation all 3 requirements failed already beforehand. You may disagree here if you consider the link to the file page as "in any reasonable manner", and maybe you are right if that is your point of view. Anyway, no strong feelings and just trying to explain my point of view so please feel very welcome to revert my edit. Though I'm wondering if keeping the <span role="presentation"> around and removing the link= could be sufficient for screenreader software and that is why I wrote that this conversation would really benefit from folks regularly using screenreader software. I hope there's a way to both cover license requirements and throwing less unhelpful noise at people who reply on screenreaders to read that wiki page. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 16:35, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@AKlapper (WMF): Thank you for the clarification. The image link to the file details page (containing information on the licence, author and date) is the mechanism chosen by the wiki software developers (and endorsed by the consensus of wikimedia contributors at previous related discussions) to meet the "in any reasonable manner" requirement. The presence of the image link can be debated on whether it meets the reasonableness test; removal of the image link and not providing an alternative link clearly fails the test.
As you are not sure which part of your edit may impact screen readers, it would definitely be of benefit to get some additional view points on this. I'll see if I can track down any groups interested in accessibility issues on other wikis I frequent, to see if they are willing to provide input. From Hill To Shore (talk) 17:15, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I have asked at en:Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Accessibility#Advice on impact of image links on screen readers. From Hill To Shore (talk) 17:32, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
some pd design can be made to replace these files, while an investigation into commons' compatibility with screen readers is carried out.--RZuo (talk) 11:16, 2 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@AKlapper (WMF) and From Hill To Shore: I'm a screen reader user. On my home project of the English Wikipedia, we actually have guidelines about this very topic as part of the alt text guideline. When an icon image needs attribution, alt text like "About icon" is just as good an option (from a screen reader perspective) as no image link at all. Graham87 (talk) 12:24, 4 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • I sympathize. I know from experience that for screen readers (of which there are a great many in this world), the shorter the description the better. Simple and direct descriptions are good. Krok6kola (talk) 03:04, 6 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

January 02[edit]

Dutch east indies birth cert[edit]

i have a question about this cert. the date in the lower right corner is 1955 right? then the question is, did the indonesian govt or the dutch govt issue this cert?--RZuo (talk) 11:16, 2 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

There are in fact three dates visible in this birth certificate. (1) The certificate states that Tjiong Joen Foeng (a girl) was born on 26 October 1934; (2) the excerpt is dated 27 Nov. 1948 (date of issue); (3) and legalized ("gezien voor legalisatie") on 25 March 1955. The third date indicates that an Indonesian official legalized this birth certificate in 1955. Vysotsky (talk) 12:39, 2 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
thx a lot. i'm surprised by the document being written still in dutch (using old spelling bandoeng etc.) a few years after the independence. i have no knowledge of the legal customs there, so i was confused. RZuo (talk) 12:45, 2 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The original document dates from 1948. It was legalised later, in 1955 (using a different typewriter). My guess is that several Chinese citizens of Bandung tried to get out of Indonesia in 1948, and needed official documents to be able to travel. See this photograph, in which Chinese representatives from the city talk to nine Dutch officials in Bandung, June 1948. Sukarno and Hatta declared Indonesia independent on 17 August 1945, but Dutch officials were in Indonesia until December 1949. Vysotsky (talk) 16:53, 2 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
True; major cities on Java remained under Dutch control for most of the independence conflict in 1945-1949 and Bandung was one of them. Perhaps there was no landrechter available for the second signature when the ambtenaar van den burgerlijken stand created the certificate. Considering the situation at the time, I am not too surprised. Then Tjiong Joen Foeng apparently had to wait until 1955 for the signature of the Indonesian successor to the landrechter (ketua pengadilan negeri, handwritten). Fun fact: while most of it is Dutch, there are two typewritten parts in Indonesian: Ongkos Rp. 1.50 (looks like you had to pay 1.50 rupiahs to get this excerpt) and 23 Maret 1955. --HyperGaruda (talk) 20:52, 2 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
thx a lot. that clears up my doubt. i dont understand dutch or indonesian, so i thought someone was still writing in dutch in 1955.
the story behind this is the girl and her father went back to gwongdung, but the father fled to indonesia again after the communists came and purged anyone with a bit of money, but the girl stayed in gwongdung coz she was engaged and then married. the cert was sent to her by her elder siblings. this paper could be an escape ticket coz situation in gwongdung turned really grim since 1950s. RZuo (talk) 03:09, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Commons 2023 in numbers[edit]

The number of files increased from 89,715,735 files on 1st January 2023 to 101,839,339 files on 1st January 2024, which is an addition of 12,123,604 files in 2023, including the subtraction of deleted files in 2023. The amount of files grew by 13.5 % in 2023. The increase in 2022 was 9.917523 Mio. files.

The amount of data (excluding deleted and old version of files) increased from 417.461 terabytes (1st January 2023) to 532.934 terabytes (1st January 2024). This is an increase of 115.472 terabytes. The amount of data grew by 27.66 % in 2023. The biggest increase was in 11/2023 and 12/2023 with 44.26 terabytes. The increase in 2022 was approximately 71 terabytes large.

--PantheraLeo1359531 😺 (talk) 11:42, 2 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thanks. Ymblanter (talk) 21:28, 2 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Revision deletion?[edit]

I accidentally uploaded a copy of Thure de Thulstrup's Battle of Shiloh instead of his Massacre at Rock Springs in the middle of a chain of uploads (I like to upload in-progress uploads of restorations ever since I had a file I had been working on for hours get corrupted a few years back). The bad upload is https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/7/7b/20240102005056%21Thure_de_Thulstrup_-_The_Massacre_of_the_Chinese_at_Rock_Springs.png - the main file link is File:Thure de Thulstrup - The Massacre of the Chinese at Rock Springs.png.

The mistaken upload is on Wikipedia already (File:Thure de Thulstrup - Battle of Shiloh.png) so no need to keep it.

I do apologise: I have to use the chunked upload for this as it's over 100MB, and that skips past some of the checks, like the preview and the duplicate warning. Adam Cuerden (talk) 15:30, 2 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Adam Cuerden: this describes in detail what you did, but not what you want someone to do. Are you asking for a revdel of the version from 23:41, 1 January 2024, or are you asking for something else? - Jmabel ! talk 19:37, 2 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yes, if possible. Just want to get rid of the one upload of a different image. Unless it's agreed it doesn't matter. Adam Cuerden (talk) 20:07, 2 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I vote for “doesn’t matter”. We have zillions of old revisions that are “wrong” in some way or another, quite harmlessly.—Odysseus1479 (talk) 20:20, 2 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
In this case it would be a good idea to delete the old revision. It will remove the temptation for someone to invoke COM:Overwrite to revert to the original upload in technical compliance with the guideline, which would restore a duplicate of another file we have stored elsewhere. From Hill To Shore (talk) 20:30, 2 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Done. - Jmabel ! talk 20:42, 2 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Video2commons still down?[edit]

Is Video2commons working? I can't seem to get it to work. SeichanGant (talk) 16:52, 2 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Me too. I had to download it and reupload it to V2C --PantheraLeo1359531 😺 (talk) 18:27, 2 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Assuming this is about a transfer from YouTube, last I've heard is that YouTube is currently blocking downloads. - Jmabel ! talk 19:38, 2 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

January 03[edit]

Photo signature help[edit]

Can anyone make out the photographer's name at the lower left of the photo at File:The Town Crier, v.15, no.51, Dec. 18, 1920 - DPLA - 336742dee91f10f14dff73ed6052b2f7 (page 1).jpg? Seems to be hyphenated, so maybe a studio name. Last part is "Connelly", so I'm thinking James Hargis Connelly (right era & subject matter), but the only hyphenated studio name we have for him is "Hixon-Connelly", and that's not what this appears to say (nor does it look much like the mark/signature at File:Stage actress Mabel Bert (SAYRE 6602).jpg). Location isn't entirely clear either. Maybe "K.C." ("Kansas City", which would fit for him), but maybe not. Any help would be welcome. - Jmabel ! talk 02:54, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Jmabel: I would not be surprised if the beginning of the signature was cut off.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 15:26, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I made a crop of just the photo and searched using TinEye and Google Images, but found no hits. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:12, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Jeff G.: Agreed. - Jmabel ! talk 19:35, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Jmabel: it could be the studio just changed their logo/signature over time. The ones in File:Lillian Rosedale, stage actress (SAYRE 8715).jpg and File:Vaudeville actress Janet Bonni (SAYRE 9610).jpg actually do look quite a lot like the one in the Town Crier. --HyperGaruda (talk) 19:50, 4 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@HyperGaruda: so do you think we should mention him as the likely photographer & add Category:James Hargis Connelly? - Jmabel ! talk 19:56, 4 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Jmabel: oof, Category:Hixon-Connelly Studio is as specific as I would dare to go. Which of the two photographers, Hixon or Connelly, clicked the button, I cannot deduce from this. --HyperGaruda (talk) 20:06, 4 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
At some point between 1918 and 1922, Hixon bought out Connelly but appeared to retain the studio name. Connelly went on to make entertainment photos for the Chicago Tribune.[1] As this poster is from 1920, the photo (with an unknown date) could have been taken by the studio (with or without Connelly), by Connelly acting independently of the studio or by another photographer with the same name (though I think this last option is less likely). From Hill To Shore (talk) 14:45, 5 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Category:Bertrand de Beauvau[edit]

Another medium-sized category (including a subcategory) consisting entirely of AI-generated images of a quality that might be (barely) acceptable for a children's book, but has no apparent relevance to Commons's scope. Category had no parent categories, which is how I ran across it. I'm certainly not going to do the research to put parent categories on what I consider junk. - Jmabel ! talk 06:08, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Standardizing Setsumatsusha Categories[edit]

Looking at Category:Setsumatsusha I want to make the subcategories more standardized. Some of them are called "Sessha and Massha of X shrine" in various capitalizations. I think we should harmonize the names of the subcategories a bit. Maybe either rename it to Category:Sessha and Massha or rename the categories to "Setsumatsusha of X Shrine". My understanding from the English article is that they are effectively one thing now, and we do not need to distinguish between the two. Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (please tag me) 09:56, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • @Immanuelle: I would (probably) start a multi-category CfD for this and (certainly) ping the people who've been working in this area. - Jmabel ! talk 19:37, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    @Jmabel how do I do that? Also is this more like the teahouse on enwiki or did I post in the wrong spot? Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (please tag me) 19:41, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    @Immanuelle: Commons doesn't have an exact analogue of the "Teahouse" (which is mainly oriented toward beginners). This project has about 10-20% as many active participants as en-wiki, so we have fewer specialized discussion areas. There's the "Help desk" (where this probably ideally would have gone) and the "Village pump" (here, and not a bad place to ask). The Village pump is usually more for items that might require broad discussion among multiple experienced users, but it can become a bit of a catchall and that is OK. There is also Commons:Village pump/Copyright (specific to copyright questions) and Commons:Graphic Lab for help with retouching, making maps, etc.
    Instructions for starting a discussion of a particular category or categories are at Commons:Categories_for_discussion; there's a section there specifically on listing multiple categories. I'm guessing you know how to look at histories, see who's involved, and ping them.
    Let me know if you need anything else. - Jmabel ! talk 20:04, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    @Jmabel I just started the discussion Commons:Categories_for_discussion/2024/01/Category:Setsumatsusha do you have something like AWB to use to add the template to all the pages? There's 64 categories for discussion so it is quite difficult to tag all of them properly. Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (please tag me) 22:48, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

File:Tesla den Hahn abdrehen, Blaues-Band-Aktion gegen Tesla, Grünheide Fangschleuse, Wasserschutz vor Profite! Fabrik-Eerweiterung verhindern! 01.jpg[edit]

Oooch Leute, nichts daran ist mehr lustisch. Da habe ich 33 Dateien, bei denen ich leider überall ein e zuviel im Dateinamen habe, die also einfach ent-e-t werden müssen und weil kein file mover das bemerkungen feld in der bewegen vorlage nicht ignoriert muss ich also 33 edits machen damit auch alle 33 dateien ent-e-t werden. und was sehe ich zufällig nach 3 tagen? eine datei wurde falsch verschoben, zweien wurde einfach die vorlage entzogen und die anderen wurden nicht bearbeitet. Informiert wurde ich darüber nicht. ja bei den bewege-anträgen ist mir ein fehler unterlaufen, der wäre durch den medienbeweger aber einfach zu entfehlern gewesen, oder alternativ mir "bescheid" sagen. aber nee, das wäre wohl alles zu einfach. --C.Suthorn (@Life_is@no-pony.farm - p7.ee/p) (talk) 15:33, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@C.Suthorn: I usually read German decently, but I'm afraid I don't follow that. Are you asking for someone to do something, complaining about an (unnamed?) tool not behaving correctly, or what? Is there some action you are requesting? - Jmabel ! talk 19:41, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Among other things, "file mover" (in English): do you mean software or a person? "kein file mover das bemerkungen feld in der bewegen vorlage nicht ignoriert" seems to be "no file mover fails to ignore the comment field in the move template" which is awfully convoluted, and I assume means "all file moves ignore the comment field in the move template" but I still don't know what you mean. {{Move}} doesn't have a comment field (unless you mean the "reason" field) which I would expect any software to ignore. So are you complaining that people are ignoring your stated reason? or what?
Feel free to answer in German, but please try to be a little more straightforward, provide links and examples, etc. - Jmabel ! talk

Mass rename requests[edit]

What to do with the 20,000 requests, a set (as far as I can see). I'm not going to rename that, it's weeks of work, or more. I don't even know if these requests are good. This is more for a bot, if it should be renamed, also if it should be declined. Grtz. - Richardkiwi (talk) (talk) 16:35, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • @Richardkiwi: care to provide a link to whatever you are talking about? - Jmabel ! talk 19:38, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    @Jmabel: there is an awfully large amount of rename requests according to Category:Rename, in particular in Category:Media requiring renaming - rationale 4. I think that also explains one of C.Suthorn's complaints in the preceding section, about hardly anything having been done about his requests after three days. There are just not enough filemovers to deal with this flood. --HyperGaruda (talk) 20:11, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    I don't think anyone saw 20k rename requests coming when the requester got the advice in Commons:Village_pump/Archive/2023/12#staff situation. --HyperGaruda (talk) 20:20, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    • Ah, all that Sanborn stuff. Didn't we say that if that was to go forward it should be done by a bot? - Jmabel ! talk 20:24, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
      If the rename requests are valid, I won't oppose a bot-action but it is really a tough job to discern what is good and what is bad for a bot. However, since these Sanborn stuff requests are coming from a single user, I guess a few requests should be weighed in manually? If that's a good sign, let's get any bot to do this tedious job. ─ The Aafī (talk) 20:37, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
      There are 196870 files that need renaming from the old format.
      And then there are a few ten thousand that need renaming from new format 1 to new format 2. This is due to a mistake i made during the initial upload.
      User:Nowakki/test2 illustrates why the old format is inferior. For 1885 and 1888 the Library of Congress sequence number happens to be the same as the plate number, for later years this is not the case. Internally these maps only use plate numbers. One would have to click on a few files first to find what they are looking for. I don't think many people use these maps as they are now.
      This is not a big deal. the Library of Congress provides the plate number for all files. This requires little manual intervention.
      User:SanbornMapBot/teststate is a preview of the state index, to be prepended to the top level categories. SanbornMapBot (talk) 20:54, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
      Also I should note that the LoC metadata is very reliable. From my experience the error rate is less than 1% (haven't found one yet). The plate number, the year and the volume are also printed in big-ass letters on each plate. It is easy to verify that a random sample of new file names is correct. SanbornMapBot (talk) 21:05, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
      Not everything that is wrong or is in an old format, has to be renamed. Like 10k, for example, it must be really necessary. Big requests must be done carefully or declined when not really necessary. For small amounts, it's not a big deal. - Richardkiwi (talk) (talk) 21:11, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
      I should have worked more slowly.
      On the other hand, i have dealt with 5 different bureaucrats already, who don't seem to talk to each other and you guys haven't even made up your mind whether you want any of this.
      The renames will be done in 2 or 3 days and they will eternally prevent headaches for each and every customer. SanbornMapBot (talk) 21:17, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
      To summarize: sometimes requests have to be approved, sometimes they have to be declined. The number of files in general needs to be considered.
      At this point the above has to be applied to the present situation. SanbornMapBot (talk) 21:30, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
These renames are not in line with Commons:File renaming. Point 4 was always for files like File:BSicon BHF.svg. File:Sanborn Fire Insurance Map from Aberdeen, Monroe County, Mississippi. LOC sanborn04422 004-2.jpg is a fine file name, maybe not the best. We only rename files when something is wrong with the old name, not to improve it. The whole point of this option was old templates that relied on file names to function. With LUA these days that's no longer a valid point. We should probably remove it as a rename request reason. Multichill (talk) 17:43, 4 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Well I have an SQLite3 database that allows me easy mapping from plate number to the filename.
We can distribute the database, so people can install it on their laptops and phones.
Or we let them click on a few files when they have a plate name in hand and try to narrow down where the corresponding file is. Since commons doesn't do improvements, i guess that is inevitable then. SanbornMapBot (talk) 18:07, 4 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
If someone gives a green light, what Multichill already does a little, I want to help 'declining' them. As you can see, I already doubt if they should be renamed. Or let a bot do that, but I don't know how that works. If I see consensus, I can help. - Richardkiwi (talk) (talk) 18:12, 4 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I have read all this discussion. I would decline all per @Richardkiwi as well as @Multichill, but would keep rename reason #4.
My concern is the use of the word "plate" in each file name, instead of the word "sheet." Every Sanborn Fire Map file webpage at the Library of Congress uses the word "sheet" or "sheets" for a map set.
Here [2] is a typical example of a Library of Congress JSON manifest page, where this object (map) description contains the word "sheet(s)"- not "plate(s)." -- Ooligan (talk) 08:28, 5 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
There are already more than 200,000 new file uploads that use the word plate.
I don't think you'll get much support for a mass rename addressing a minor technicality.
Plates are illustrated full page sheets and as far as i know the use of the word in map books is common. The json file also calls a sheet "Page" in one place, "Canvas" in another and "Image" in yet another. Nowakki (talk) 11:20, 5 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
We're not going to rename 200,000 files, I don't think Ooligan means that. - Richardkiwi (talk) (talk) 13:23, 5 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
On the other hand: How would you solve the problem with LUA? Maybe that would work. SanbornMapBot (talk) 19:10, 4 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

(common moved to below) Krok6kola (talk) 21:06, 5 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Long-term file warring regarding scope of Asia[edit]

There's been over a decade of slow edit warring as to whether western New Guinea should be included in File:Asia (orthographic projection).svg, with it currently being included. I feel there needs to be some kind of discussion to settle the matter. In my opinion, we shouldn't include it, because it's geographically not part of Asia (see [3]), and we're not including Western Thrace as part of Asia on the map, which nobody seems to have issue with. Hemiauchenia (talk) 21:51, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Just my opinion, but it is part of Asia due to part of the island being Indonesia. But other people would disagree with that. So it really depends on who's definition your going by. --Adamant1 (talk) 21:56, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
But we're going off the geographical not geopolitical definition no? New Guinea forms part of the same landmass as Australia [4], and most sources I have seen do not consider it part of Asia. Hemiauchenia (talk) 22:00, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I would say, not neatly either geographical or geopolitical. The purpose of categories is to help people find stuff. If people are likely to look there, it should be there. Categories are about navigation, not ontology. - 22:31, 3 January 2024 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jmabel (talk • contribs)
This is not about categories, it's about whether a portion of a particular widely used orthographic map image should be coloured green or not. Hemiauchenia (talk) 22:59, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
This is why COM:OVERWRITE was created. They should be separate files and each user should be able to choose which one they want to use.--Prosfilaes (talk) 23:01, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yes, which is why I created File:Asia (orthographic projection) without New Guinea.svg by forking off a previous file version. The question is, should the title of the original file be changed? Hemiauchenia (talk) 23:20, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yes, they should be separate files and they should be clearly labeled to explain the difference (which means renaming the original file). However, unless you have a bot update all the transclusions, you'll need to have a redirect from the original name in order to not disrupt the numerous transclusions. Nosferattus (talk) 22:42, 5 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

January 04[edit]

Commons:Meet our photographers/People[edit]

Hello.

This page Commons:Meet our photographers/People doesn't appear correctly on smartphone. --ComputerHotline (talk) 07:17, 4 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Shaping the Future of the Community Wishlist Survey[edit]

Hello community,

Thank you for participating in the Community Wishlist Survey over the years.

We are also grateful for your feedback about the survey and your patience in waiting for a response.

We have reviewed your feedback and made preliminary decisions to share with you.

In summary, Community Tech would like to develop a new, continuous intake system for community technical requests that improves prioritization, resourcing, and communication around wishes. Until the new system is established, the Community Tech team will prioritize work from the recently audited backlog of wishes rather than run the survey in February 2024. We are also looking to involve more volunteer developers in the wishlist process, beginning with the first-ever community Wishathon in March 2024.

Please read the announcement in detail either on the Diff blog or MetaWiki, and give your feedback.

The new intake system will need your ideas and involvement, and we’ll reach out on this topic in the next few months.

We look forward to hearing from you. –– STei (WMF) (talk) 17:34, 4 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Does this have any effect on Commons:Requests for comment/Technical needs survey? (I think not, but just checking). - Jmabel ! talk 19:52, 4 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Discussion of an edit to Commons:Licensing[edit]

Input would be welcome at Commons talk:Licensing#Forbidden licenses and below that Commons talk:Licensing#Poll. Basically, a discussion about how to structure some of the sections on this page. - Jmabel ! talk 19:36, 4 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

January 05[edit]

Sanborn Maps. Time to Vote.[edit]

The Problem:

User:Nowakki/test2 illustrates why the old format is inferior. For 1885 and 1888 the Library of Congress sequence number (the number after the minus sign in the filename) happens to be the same as the plate number, for later years this is not the case. Internally these maps only use plate numbers. One would have to click on a few files first to find what they are looking for. I don't think many people use these maps as they are now, without an index they fail basic usability standards (are ass-backwards for no good reason).

Old format: c:File:Sanborn Fire Insurance Map from Tacoma, Pierce County, Washington. LOC sanborn09345 003-4.jpg

(the 3 numbers are all Library of Congress - generated identifiers: town_id, volume_and_year_id, file_sequence_number) approximately 200,000 such files downloaded in 2018 currently exist

New format: c:File:Sanborn Fire Insurance Map from Gadsden, Etowah County, Alabama, 1951, Plate 0012.jpg

approximately 300,000 such files downloaded in 2023 currently exist

To reproduce the problem, try to find plate 13R of volume 1 of 1896 in c:Category:1896 Sanborn Fire Insurance Map from Tacoma, Pierce County, Washington. Record the number of seconds spent.

Then find plate 201 of 1943 here c:Category:Sanborn Fire Insurance Map from Gadsden, Etowah County, Alabama

Plate numbers are used to navigate the Sanborn maps as illustrated here:

There are approximately 550,000 files of which ca. 250,000 would be renamed. The rename would be entirely automatic, with the exception of workarounds for minor inconsistencies that i might fail to notice (and which exist in the data set regardless of this action). Verification is based on random censuses of the file structure.

A valid answer can be to oppose this proposal on the grounds that redirects can be created instead of files renamed. This solution is complicated: the redirects have to be in the categories the user clicks through. Where would the actual files reside? If files are renamed, the redirects left behind for legacy external linkage support don't have to be put into categories.

Should the Sanborn Fire Insurance Maps be renamed?

 Support SanbornMapBot (talk) 06:05, 5 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Can you maybe summarize why you think the maps need to be renamed and the pros and cons of both option for us lay people who weren't involved in the original discussion? --Adamant1 (talk) 06:11, 5 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
original post has been updated SanbornMapBot (talk) 06:24, 5 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Nowakki: Please login as Nowakki when discussing.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 06:31, 5 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Jeff G. what would be a reasonable time frame for the poll? I have never done this before?
8 January 00:00 UTC? Nowakki (talk) 19:22, 5 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Nowakki: Above all, I would like a clear statement of the goals of this renaming project. "Uniformity" for its own sake is not enough. What is it that some user (including possibly editors) will want to do that you are trying to make easier? We cannot judge a proposal without understanding what it intends to accomplish by way of actual use cases. - Jmabel ! talk 21:33, 5 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Jmabel You have been involved in this discussion for weeks. You still don't know what I am trying to do?
How much time have you spent working with Sanborn maps on commons? Nowakki (talk) 03:35, 6 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Nowakki: I've been involved in several hundred discussions over the last few weeks. This one may be top of mind for you, but that does not mean it is top of mind for everyone.
I see you interspersed an edit above giving "new" and "old" formats. It would probably be useful to show what the same file would be in the two formats. It is not obvious (to me at least) how (or even whether) some of the numbers in each of the two examples relate to the other example. Also, is the "new" format the one you are trying to move toward, or is it just something more recent than the "old" format?
As for how much time I've spent working with Sanborn maps on Commons: probably in the range of 20 hours at one or another time, mostly the maps for Seattle. I found the naming scheme for them those particular maps to be a total clusterf**k. Among other things, it is almost impossible to determine what we do and don't have. I've also spent significant time over the years dealing with Sanborn maps elsewhere than Commons, including in physical form in libraries.
And, again, I don't think I've seen any clear statement of goals for this. What are we trying to accomplish for what use cases? I think the cart may be in front of the horse. I agree something needs to be done because the current state is a mess, but I'm not yet convinced of what needs to be done, or even that renaming is the correct solution. - 07:25, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
To me, User:Nowakki/test2 illustrates nothing. It is almost completely opaque as to what it represents, and what it is saying about it.
I agree from experience that many of the Sanborn map file names are a mess, and there are a wide variety of conventions. I'm not sure we need a single convention across all Sanborn maps, but it would probably be good if the ones from a given locale (and certainly a given locale + year) all followed the same convention.
Could some of this be achieved with gallery pages?
I don't understand this proposal in the slightest. "Should the Sanborn Fire Insurance Maps be renamed?" Renamed to what? Nosferattus (talk) 22:39, 5 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Nosferattus: there has been some discussion over the last few weeks of Nowakki's proposal to impose a consistent file-naming scheme on the many Sanborn maps uploaded from the Library of Congress. - Jmabel ! talk 00:03, 6 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Nosferattus @Krok6kola
I have explained it further in the original post. Nowakki (talk) 03:29, 6 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Nosferattus: Where is the original post? User:Nowakki/test2 makes no sense to me. I am very familiar with the Sanborn Fire Insurance Maps, but I am confused by your format. It seems to assume those maps are useful only for their dates. Did you overwrite the files of Fæ? Also, you changed the descriptions. I can't tell from the file histories what happened. Where are the files Fæ uploaded? Krok6kola (talk) 04:28, 6 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Krok6kola original post == first post in this thread ("the proposal").
I did not overwrite any files uploaded by Fæ. They are all still there. A few hundred have been haphazardly renamed some days ago.
I used a simpler metadata scheme than Fæ for new uploads.
Maybe the confusion clears up when you re-read the updated proposal. Nowakki (talk) 04:38, 6 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Admittedly I'm not super involved in the area, but it doesn't make sense to me either. Even after reading the updated proposal. You say in the proposal that "I don't think many people use these maps as they are now" but what evidence do you have that no one uses the maps with how they are currently named or that your proposed solution will actually fix the problem if it even is one? Personally, I'm not a big fan of overly long and complicated file names either, but I fail to see how your proposal does anything in that regard except for superficially changing a few characters around. I highly doubt anyone is searching for maps based on their plate number to begin with though. And don't even get me started on the whole "map from" thing or including the town, county, and state (along with the year at the end of it) in the file name. Except to say it's convoluted either way regardless. --Adamant1 (talk) 06:59, 6 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Adamant1: if you don't think anyone searches for maps based on their plate number, that probably means you don't work much with these. (1) When a map like this is referenced in an article or book, plate number is almost always part of the reference. If it's anything other than a Wikipedia article with a link to Commons, you are going to be looking for year + city + plate number. (2) There's an index map at the front of each volume or set, which shows the breakdown to plates. If you want to find the map for a particular place in the city, at least in the paper version by far the sanest way to do that is to start with the index map and go to the correct plate. It would be very convenient to easily do the same here on Commons. - Jmabel ! talk 07:32, 6 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yes. This is what i want. Nowakki (talk) 07:50, 6 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Jmabel: I said I didn't ;) Anyway, I was mainly thinking about randos looking for maps of their local town or whatever. I image most people wouldn't know or care what the plate number is. Mainly just the date and location, both of which don't rely on the plate number. Although admittedly it's useful for multiple maps of the same area in order to find the "zone" the map covers, but you'd have to know that to begin with and how exactly it's relevant. That information isn't available in a file name though. Like if I as a lay person who just wants a map of Gadsden, Alabama how am I suppose to know what part of the town Plate 0012 corresponds to? I wouldn't. So it's not really usefull IMO. At least not in the file where there's a need to not be overly descriptive. The same goes for the county BTW. Regardless that information would be fine in the description or as part of a gallery page. But its just needless in the file name. But then so is the original "LOC sanborn09345." I'm not advocating for either one. --Adamant1 (talk) 08:09, 6 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
c:File:Sanborn Fire Insurance Map from Gadsden, Etowah County, Alabama, 1943, Plate 0000a.jpg
c:File:Sanborn Fire Insurance Map from Gadsden, Etowah County, Alabama, 1943, Plate ind1.jpg
plate numbers are used to navigate these maps. Nowakki (talk) 08:26, 6 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
the County names should be included to disambiguate town with the same name in different counties of one state. Nowakki (talk) 08:29, 6 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Template:Taken with[edit]

I'm brining this template up because the File:Asian Highways 1 South Korea.jpg was using {{Taken with}} in the Author field of the Information template. This makes it impossible to retrieve reasonable information from those fields to present in other interfaces. As I was looking at this case, I wondered where it SHOULD go. It's documentation page says it should go into the "Source" parameter. That seems wrong to me. The template has nothing to do with where the uploader got the image from, it's plain metadata. Then the documentation page gives an example where it states that it should be in the "Other fields" of the Information template. That seems slightly better. Where do you all think this kind of metadata should go (other than in Commons Metadata). —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 09:41, 5 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@TheDJ: That info was added in this edit 09:24, 9 April 2021 (UTC) by LERK. What would you do about the 140,570 transclusions?   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 13:32, 5 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
For clarity, the information wasn't added in that edit. LERK removed "Category:Taken with..." and replaced it with the template. From Hill To Shore (talk) 14:28, 5 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hmm, according to the documentation, the template is also not to be used directly.. bit of a mess I'd say. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 15:17, 5 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I can see the logic behing having {{Taken with}} in the source field of {{Own}} photos. -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 05:20, 6 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Do you use Wikidata in Wikimedia sibling projects? Tell us about your experiences[edit]

Note: Apologies for cross-posting and sending in English.

Hello, the Wikidata for Wikimedia Projects team at Wikimedia Deutschland would like to hear about your experiences using Wikidata in the sibling projects. If you are interested in sharing your opinion and insights, please consider signing up for an interview with us in this Registration form.
Currently, we are only able to conduct interviews in English.

The front page of the form has more details about what the conversation will be like, including how we would compensate you for your time.

For more information, visit our project issue page where you can also share your experiences in written form, without an interview.
We look forward to speaking with you, Danny Benjafield (WMDE) (talk) 08:53, 5 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Danny Benjafield (WMDE): Are you monitoring this post for answers to your question? I ask because its phrasing suggests that you posted this same text in several venues. If you’re not, then I suggest that the section title should be something like “WMDE interview about Wikidata integration” or some such, instead this misleading, spammy title. If you are, then here’s my answer: I use it to create automated interwiki links, especially between Commons categories and Wikipedia articles (in any language) — and that’s a part of Wikidata I appreciate and consider useful and well developed. The rest of Wikidata? Nah. -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 05:17, 6 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

How often have mp3 and mpeg-2 been used lately?[edit]

Ever since mp3 and mpeg-2 patents have expired in the US, I was hoping that mp3 and mpeg-2 would become more popular here than webM and ogg. Why hasn't it been the case yet? Why still use webM and ogg over mp3 and mpeg-2? George Ho (talk) 18:52, 5 January 2024 (UTC) (comment moved from above)Reply[reply]

Can you explain what you want? mp3 is an audio format. webm is used nearly only for video, ogg can be oga an audio format or ogv a video format. Both ogg and webm are younger formats than mp3 and therefore superior. For audio in really good quality on commons you can use wav, opus or flac. for video in really high quality you can use webm with AV1 encoding or at least VP9, but even VP8 is much better than ogv. MP3 is often used by new users for pirated content and therefore forbidden for new users. It would be good to completely phase out mp3, mpeg2, ogg, oga, ogv and webm with VP8 or VP9 with the only exception of imported media, where any of this formats is the original format in which the media has been published and other versions in other formats have been derived from that original. C.Suthorn (@Life_is@no-pony.farm - p7.ee/p) (talk) 19:25, 5 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Resurrection of Featured media candidates[edit]

Hi, It seems that the accession of Steamboat Willie into the public domain resurrected Commons:Featured media candidates. Please join. The bot archiving the candidates is dead, so we need replacement. There is also an issue with these successful candidates (Commons:Featured media candidates/File:Sunset on Halfdome timelapse Yosemite CA 2023-07-15 20-11-06 1.webm, Commons:Featured media candidates/File:Henry Purcell "Dido & Aeneas" (extrait) - Les Arts Florissants, William Christie.webm), which display Please add gallery! although the gallery is there. Any idea? Yann (talk) 20:19, 5 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Asahel Curtis[edit]

It looks like tens of thousands of previously undigitized images by Asahel Curtis will be digitized and placed online over the next year or so. The bulk of these should be in the public domain. Would anyone like to form a plan to import these as they become available? - Jmabel ! talk 21:43, 5 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Fæ can do it. Oh, wait. Hm… -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 05:10, 6 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Tuvalkin: yeah, but lacking a time machine I'd prefer having this done by someone who currently has some involvement with Commons. I figure they are a lot more likely to get around to it.
BMacZero, Dominic, is this something either of you could do, or could suggest who would? Does either of you have access to Washington State Historical Society content? - 07:37, 6 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

January 06[edit]

Retrieved from "https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Village_pump&oldid=838950972"